Olivia & Matt
Photography by Ryan Patterson
Matt Rubin is in the business of knowing people, and takes photos. And since this conversation took place, in January 2014, Matt has started working at Gin Lane.Olivia makes him a better person and is a writer and editor. You can find her work in publications like Interview magazine, Vogue.com & Elle.com, Bullett, and the New York Observer.
MATT: We’re putting out what we want, you know, to the world. And that’s how I got Olivia.
OLIVIA: Wait, I’ve never read The Secret.
MATT: I haven’t either.
TWP: Wasn't that what you just said?
MATT: No. No, I haven’t read it. I’m just into putting vibes out. I use the premise of the book, but I’ve never read it.
TWP: Here, well have a seat. I want to hear the story. How did you guys meet?
MATT: OK.
TWP: That’s always a good starting place.
OLIVIA: The real one?
TWP: Yeah, yep. Or the fake one.
MATT: What’s the real one? What’s the fake one? There’s only one.
OLIVIA: Well, it depends on how deep you want to go.
MATT: But yeah, make sure you get that picture of Larry David.
OLIVIA: You can stop this at any point, it’s long.. But the semi-edited for PG purposes story is that Matt moved to New York four years ago, ish. My best friend, Dana, was his neighbor and I knew about him, knew that he existed, but I’d never met him. She stayed really good friends with Matt after moving and then two years or so later I threw a surprise birthday party for her and invited him, even though I’d never talked to him, because I knew how important he was in her life. And that was when we first met, at her surprise birthday party that I threw. But we didn't really talk to each other. You can go from here.
MATT: The real thing was that I had seen her on Dana’s Instagram. And I was always like, “Who’s this girl?”
TWP: Stalking.
MATT: Not a stalker as much, because I was vocal about it. I wouldn’t stalk in secret. So we’ll call it “vocal stalking.” And to Dana I was like, “You posted this photo of this really pretty girl and you should introduce me. Why haven’t you introduced me to your friends?” I guess is what I was doing. So then, fast-forward to the birthday party.
OLIVIA: So he already knew who I was.
MATT: I already knew who she was; she already knew who I was. But I didn't know anything about anything.
TWP: You were following each other on Instagram.
MATT: I didn't know she was from New Zealand, I didn't know anything.
OLIVIA: We weren’t following each other.
MATT: I didn't do anything it was whenever she’d pop up in the friend's photos, I’d be like, “That girl, I, you know...I like that.” Anyway, this birthday party happened. And so Olivia emails me and I’m like, “Oh, my God, it’s that girl. And that’s cool.” So I go to this birthday party and I think birthday party dinners are always weird because you always mix friends, but you also put this weird social distance between everybody because you’re going to be seated in cliques with who you know. I was down at the orphan side of the table, if you will, with all of these people I didn’t really know and she was across from me with her boyfriend. I didn't even get to talk to her.
OLIVIA: I had a boyfriend at the time.
MATT: She had a boyfriend at the time. So I let it go. So then time went by.
OLIVIA: A few months later.
MATT: And every night I went to bed and I, I put my lucky penny under my pillow and I prayed to whatever. And anyway, long story short, I kind of let it go. But then Dana’s boyfriend wrote me, “We owe Olivia money for these donuts she got.” I was going to use that as an opportunity to write her.
OLIVIA: He asked me, “Do you have PayPal or Venmo?” I said, “I don't, sorry.” Knowing what I know about him now, though, I don't know why he didn't quit on me right then and there.
MATT: I thought, “I could be like hey, we should be lovers,” you know, that’s how you get girls and that’s how you write emails.
I was down at the you know, orphan side of the table, if you will. And so I was with all of these people I didn’t really know and she was across from me with her boyfriend. I didn't even get to talk to her.
MATT: There’s this one night I’m hanging out with some of her mutual friends and we go to this literary party that I would never go to. I don't read books. I read the internet. I wasn't even thinking she’d be there, I didn’t even know. I just know there’s free crackers and cheese is really my objective, and maybe some water or something. And a bathroom, I had to go to the bathroom. So I went to the Paris Review party. I hightailed it to the restroom. Really nice bathroom. And then I saw cheese and crackers, so I stood there. And I feel like everyone else had already eaten, so I was just kind of doing my thing. And in walks this guy [points to Olivia], this girl, rather. I was going to say, “This one...” This is why I only do emails.
TWP: In walks this guy.
MATT: A guy that I had been dreaming about.
TWP: This is great.
MATT: So in walks this one. She comes over because I’m with some of her friends. I think I knew one person which made me feel, kind of cool. But anyway, I don't know anyone else and so I start talking to Olivia and we’re just talking and then at some point I start talking about how I draw pe, uh, penises.
OLIVIA: On Snapchat.
MATT: That’s my thing and that’s pretty much all I do with it, and I can’t stop, kind of like Superbad. Because there’s nothing else to do on it.
MATT: And she goes, you know, “I don’t know my Snapchat username, give me your phone number.” I don't know why. Maybe because I looked like I was cool. She said, “I’ll add you on Snapchat.” Seemingly I was like, that doesn't need to happen, but I’ll do it because what if I was like, “No, you can’t have my number you’re a stranger, I don't want you to have my number.” So I gave it to her, and then the conversation progressed. I get obsessed with things every couple of days, it could be anything. And fortuitously, that day I was really into soft boiled eggs and dipping bread into them. And she said, “Oh, you’re dipping soldiers,” which is what they call strips of bread, British people and New Zealand people.
OLIVIA: That’s what they’re called!
MATT: Long-tangent short I got really into soft boiled eggs. And since we had already talked about it I thought, “What’s going to be a Snapchat I send to her?” So I made soft boiled eggs a week later and I Snapchatted her a picture of me doing it. That made it so she texted me to tell me how awesome my soft boiled eggs were, and now we’re lovers. Pretty much. Because after that Snapchat she tried to set up this dinner. She was all, “Next week we should all go eat dinner.” There’s so much more to this.
OLIVIA: So we went to dinner, Matt, myself, Fiona, the girl that he went to the Paris Review party with, and Dana, my best friend.
I went to the Paris Review party. I hightailed it to the restroom. Really nice bathroom. And then I saw cheese and crackers, so I stood there. And I feel like everyone else had already eaten, so I was just kind of doing my thing. And in walks this guy, this girl, rather.
MATT: So we sat across from each other with our friends at Jack’s Wife Freda. It’s finally, you know, whatever I did finally aligned us to be right here. I didn't care that anyone else was there, the restaurant could have been empty. We got to talk and eat our first meal together. We all went to a bar afterwards, Jo’s, it’s since closed, and we all sat down. Then Fiona and Dana had to go to some cool party.
OLIVIA: A Versace party. They left us alone to do that.
MATT: They said, “Oh, do you want to come” and Olivia said, “I just want to stay.” And I was pretty excited about that. She’s signing on for a couple more times together.
TWP: She subscribed.
MATT: She subscribed to my monthly membership, at least, or weekly. I walked her home, which was only six doors down, which is an incredible location. So it wasn't creepy where I had to walk her miles.
OLIVIA: If you have to get on the subway no one’s going to walk you home. But we were on the same block, so he acted the gentleman. After what seemed like an hour standing outside my door talking, he leaned in for the kiss. I was pretty giddy, you know, that wide smile you get when you’re half embarrassed, half so excited you want to jump around, and a little bit drunk? Then he pulled the best one-liner. Looking straight at me, he said. “How do you exist?” So I guess he really liked me, huh? And the rest, as they say, is history.
MATT: The rest is history. And it was really great. We went on a formal date two days later, which started in the day, because day dates, anything can go, it’s not always romantic, it’s more friendship. But we did it and we spent the whole day together and it was awesome.
OLIVIA: He took me to Hazel the Baby’s first birthday party...
MATT: I took her to a baby’s birthday party, which on the record I would never think about doing on a first date.
It’s finally, you know, whatever I did finally aligned us to be right here. I didn't care that anyone else was there, the restaurant could have been empty.
Work & New York
TWP: You wake up as a little kid and you think, “Ideally I would love to do that.” How did you make that happen?
OLIVIA: I got my journalism degree in New Zealand. But I always really loved fashion so I got into styling and market editing. Which I loved doing in Australia because it’s completely different. It’s really easygoing, no one takes it too seriously, and everyone has fun. Fashion, it should be fun. But then I moved to New York. I moved here for an assistant position at Teen Vogue, and I quickly realized how serious people take it here. So I went revisited my degree, and I started writing again. It wasn’t easy. I spent a lot of time meeting people and networking and I’ve built a really great network of friends, who all happen to be really successful and talented, and they helped me along the way. And Matt is in the business of knowing people and a lot of the people that I have written about he has led me to.
TWP: I don't think you can really survive in New York without that.
OLIVIA: I agree. I wouldn't be where I am without it. And that’s why you cast a wide net and the people that you manage to catch do always kind of compliment you in some way. It is amazing how everyone here knows each other, in some way or another, but in my case it’s in a really genuine way. I am very, very lucky to be surrounded by people I both love and admire.
TWP: Do you think you would be able to live in any place other than New York and kind of have the lives that you have now?
MATT: Together or separately?
OLIVIA: I feel like New York is always at the forefront. It’s where ideas are made and stories break… and the rest of the world, well Australia and New Zealand anyway, just kind of follow along. Being in New York not only gives you a great platform to create news and trends, but it enables you to be first. Like I was the first person in America to write about Lorde for Interview magazine, in May 2013. No one knew who she was, no one even knew where New Zealand was, you know, let alone a girl from New Zealand. Now she’s on the cover of Rolling Stone.
You cast a wide net and the people that you manage to catch do always kind of compliment you in some way.
Traveling together
OLIVIA: We traveled for the first time to Nicaragua and that was funny.
MATT: She’s from an island in the middle of nowhere that gets left off maps, so typically she has had to travel very far her whole life to go anywhere. I’m from Kansas, in the middle of America. I have lakes; she has oceans. And I didn't travel. I have lived in every big city in America at this point, except for Chicago, and I felt like I was accomplished in that sense. But then I realized there’s a whole world out there. So I finally had my really good Kansas friends take me to Paris in 2012, and that was my first foray into going further than California. And I was really scared to do that. And then I realized it’s just like anything else. Then I met this one and we had the opportunity to go to this surf village in Nicaragua. It wasn't like it was scary... I just had never been driven into the jungle two hours and dropped off, to meet all these new people that I didn't know before. I really trust her and I figure if she’s down to do it then obviously it’s no big deal and I don't even think twice. We learned to surf together and we didn't have any issues.
OLIVIA: His neurosis means that he’s quite hesitant when it comes to making decisions, especially ones that involve planes. Whereas I... I mean, in Vietnam (a few months after Nicaragua) I took my grandmother, my brother, his girlfriend at the time, and Matt to this island...
MATT: It was called Monkey Island.
OLIVIA: It was called Monkey Island. I had no idea where I was going. I’d gotten the directions from one weird blog, but I...
MATT: It was written by a monkey potentially for all we know.
OLIVIA: I trust my instincts. I’m adventurous at heart, whereas he’s a little more cautious.
MATT: I just don't want to die.
OLIVIA: I think I have definitely helped him get out of his comfort zone I think in ways that he probably wouldn't.
MATT: It would have taken me another ten years. I progress in that way. Complete honesty, I’m very particular and I have these routines. I’m very scared to get out of them.
OLIVIA: We trust each other.
MATT: There’s no bickering.
OLIVIA: About the things that other couples fight about, like directions.
MATT: That’s because we have GPS. Olivia doesn't put up with anything. I don't know if I could travel with a lot of people for two weeks without getting annoyed, even a best friend. But we don’t get annoyed, we just go with it. And have so much fun. For example, I had an “episode” when we were getting our custom clothes made in this tiny town called Hoi An because I had one minute to decide. And generally I shut down in any situation like that because I think, “I’m on vacation. This is like too much and am I going to look weird? Are they going to make something that looks all baggy and weird?” And Olivia is all, "You just do it.” And I got some awesome stuff made. Now I have my own tailor in Vietnam. But it’s those moments.
I really trust her and I figure if she’s down to do it then obviously it’s no big deal and I don't even think twice.
TWP: How did you guys come to say I love you?
MATT: Oh, don't tell the crappy version of it.
OLIVIA: What’s the crappy version?
MATT: Oh, OK, good, then that’s that.
OLIVIA: He said it first.
MATT: Yeah, I said it first.
OLIVIA: We were in bed.
MATT: And not like in bed, but in bed, this bed, our couch. And I just said it I guess. It was easy for me to tell her that … we call it trust the process. Sometimes just let it happen.
OLIVIA: It was six months in.
MATT: Because we progressed in this way that we connected. We clicked, it worked and it made sense. It worked from day one. I feel like after a week maybe I didn't feel like saying “I love you,” but I already felt pretty sure it was just good.
OLIVIA: Can I tell this and if Matt hates it we can delete it?
TWP: We can take it out.
OLIVIA: Matt had this dog, a bichon frise, called Fluff. Fluff was his best friend. He grew up with her, and he still has pictures of her on his Facebook profile. He loves Fluff...
MATT: She’s beautiful.
OLIVIA: ...a lot. Fluff is his guardian angel. The day after he told me he loved me he said to me, “I have never felt this way. I feel like when I was ten years old, the way I used to feel when I hugged Fluff. Unconditional love is how I feel about you and I’ve never felt that way about anyone."
MATT: Well, that’s the biggest compliment.
OLIVIA: And it kind of was to me, even though that may sound super weird.
MATT: It’s so weird.
OLIVIA: I understood what he was trying to say.
It worked and it made sense. It worked from day one and the whole time.