Jan & Elisabeth
Photography by Ryan Patterson
Jan Wilker founded Karlssonwilker, with Hjalti Karlsson of Iceland, the two met while working for Stefan Sagmeister, but, this interview is about Jan and his wife Elisabeth Smolarz, a fine artist.
JAN: We met in Germany at art school. The Stuttgart Academy—no, State Academy of Fine Arts, Stuttgart, is the proper name. I studied design, graphic design.
ELISABETH: And I studied fine art.
JAN: We studied together. Both of us were recently single.
ELISABETH: (laughs)
JAN: Just out of a long-term relationship, neither of us was interested in anything serious at the time. We had enough of that, we didn’t want to, yeah, have another. I think when we met I already knew that I would go to New York to start the office eventually. So we met under—well, thinking that I would be gone at some point. Yeah, and then,— so I, I moved here a couple months later and then Ella visited and she didn’t like it too much in the beginning. She didn’t have anything to do here. She was here because of me. And I was very busy or I kept myself very busy with the office. Over time it changed and now, now she likes it here maybe more than I do.
ELISABETH: I love it. I don’t just like it.
JAN: And I still like it also.
JAN: Yeah, I like this neighborhood. I love that Ella, since she’s from Poland and this being a Polish area — I like seeing Ella walking around in Greenpoint and hearing and understating it profusely different to me. I don’t understand what people say in the street. She, she can. It’s amazing that she can. She has this insight into this place that, that I don’t have. I always ask, “What did they say?”, "What are they talking about?".
TWP: When did you decide you wanted to open up your own shop?
JAN: I think it was never—meaning it was never even a question not to, it was always clear. I already had a small studio in Germany, and I think that was just always—that was the default.
TWP: How did you figure out how to get the work that you wanted?
JAN: It was not premeditated—we were not in control of who to work for at all, at least not in the beginning. And we were lucky. And it was a slow growth process. Small steps up and down. And just surviving long enough makes a difference already. I also think that with us it wasn't easy to understand what we did, from the outside, as potential client. Our own website and any other piece we put out was complicated, involved, with cryptic messages. And so there was a certain threshold, for people to understand what we do. So the phone rarely rings, but if it rings, chances are quite high that it’s a very good client, who calls because he spent ample time to figure out that they want to work with us. And because they already made all the decisions to get in touch with us—us not having that mass appeal—it’s a good relationship from the start. But again, that also means that the phone rarely rings. It’s that trade up between safety, security, and having lots of work passing through your office. Or just living from less but different quality. We got used to it over the years. Just very good collaborators, people you can trust, and trust you. That’s sometimes hard to find, but this is key of course.
It’s that trade up between safety, security, and having lots of work passing through your office. Or just living from less but different quality.
Vegas
ELISABETH: In 2003 I finished my MFA. And we got married in Vegas.
JAN: Little white wedding chapel.
ELISABETH: Vegas was incredible.
TWP: Did it seem like -- did it seem like sort of the American ideal?
ELISABETH: Totally.
TWP: Sort of kitschy, kitschy --
ELISABETH: It’s American culture.
JAN: We didn’t fully embrace it because we got married outside the chapel, on a little pice of astroturf. It was very unstressful, or not stressful. A beautiful day. We stayed at the New York, New York hotel (laughs) — we were at the pool in the morning and then we just looked at each other, “Should we get married today?” And then we got married. And then we were back at the pool two hours later.
ELISABETH: (laughs) Well, you know in Germany no one gets married these days. All you have to do is stay with your partner. And then you get treated as a married couple. We also don’t have that industry, you know, the wedding industry’s so strong in this country. How can you not get married? And even in “Sex and the City” ends in marriage. It’s all about that. Boyfriends and proposals. This is not how it works where I grew up — it’s not a priority to get married.
TWP: And so many girls are thinking about this day for their whole life.
ELISABETH: I know, and we don’t have that.
TWP: It’s like -- it all hinges upon this one day being the most important day.
ELISABETH: It already sounds very stressful.
TWP: Did anything change after you guys got married? Like oh my God, we’re a married couple now. We have to act like a married couple.
ELISABETH: No. I mean it is a beautiful moment. Yeah, because we’re in love and we say these words —it’s a strange moment. We’re in Vegas and it’s hot. But I think it’s fun to say, “This is my husband,” you know? All of these things. But I don’t think that it is different then before.
JAN: I think there was nothing negative about it for sure. Meaning there was nothing scary about it. It was just a continuation of what it was before. Only positives. It wasn’t an ironic wedding at all. You might think it could be because it happened in Las Vegas, but it was the least stressful, natural way of doing it. And only for us. For no one else. No show.
JAN: When she’s busy, I know exactly how it is. And most of the time we both are kind of busy. We have this little rule that Sundays are our days. Any other day of the week doesn’t matter really, but Sundays, we should be able to spend time together, all day.
ELISABETH: We don’t go out to any brunches or anything — we’re not meeting anybody. It’s just us. You have to set time for each other aside. You have to force yourself. And your friends will get annoyed in the beginning. They’re like oh my God, Sunday, ehh. But after a while they’re getting it.
But I think it’s fun to say, “This is my husband,” you know?
On work
JAN: The work that one does, usually — or I think it should — it usually reflects some sort of your personality. So it is not wrong to at least prejudge somebody by the work that person does. Therefore, the people that invite us to go to places and lecture and hold workshops, they do it because they like what we do. Then the probability is very high that they also like us as people and we like them. I don’t know many other profession where that seems to work so well, you know.
TWP: You guys do work that’s kind of different from each other.
ELISABETH: I encourage Jan to help me in any way (laughs). But we, but we — it depends a little bit on the project. All you need is a second pair of eyes, you know, to look at something. It doesn’t necessarily have something to do with your profession, but just looking at something.
JAN: But I think we are not involving each other in our daily work. I think we are very aware of, of keeping the other person out of it.
ELISABETH: We have a band together.
JAN: I think we’re very conscious about what we do or what our strengths are. I’m a designer and she’s an artist and what’s she going to do with advice from a designer? On some project it might be helpful, but usually all I can give her is, is the advice of a designer. Because that’s what I know, that’s who I am. And I think it’s a very, very condensed, focused view of things.
ELISABETH: It’s true. But I think that at the same time, I mean it’s always—for me it’s always very valuable to hear your perspective, or to hear your kind of comments.
JAN: It’s usually an outsider perspective that I can offer. But this is not always needed or wanted. I think we are conscious about what we do, not polar opposites, but they’re very far away from each other. Fine art and design are just very, very far away from each other I think. I know that a lot of people don’t think so, but I think that what I do is very different. It’s the opposite almost from, from what a fine artist does.
ELISABETH: Yeah, conceptually. The reason why you make something in an art field is different than, you know, reasons you make something in the design field. It’s applied to a project. Whereas in the art field you can keep doing it for yourself or for everybody.
TWP: Do you think it’s frustrating if the other person doesn’t understand what you’re working on?
ELISABETH: No, because I think that when you’re in a busy phase you’re busy regardless. It’s not about the reasons why you’re busy. It’s about you being busy. So it’s more like OK, how can I help you? And even if that means that I make dinner every night, or Jan makes dinner—like Jan has been cooking every night for me. So it’s more—Because there’s nothing else I can do, or he can do sometimes. You don’t have to fully understand why somebody’s—Because it might just be that the client is stressful and freaking out. I mean it’s really not that unusual. You know, that happens. And not everybody can even see that.
TWP: Things that you want to do?
JAN: I already reached all my goals. There’s nothing left. Don’t have too much. That might just mean that my goals where poorly chosen. And quite some time ago. There will be new ones.
ELISABETH: I would like to make a film. Like not a full-length film (laughs). I do a lot of video projects. I can only think of things that I want to do next. And the next thing would be to make a film or try to make a film.
You have to set time for each other aside. You have to force yourself. And your friends will get annoyed at the beginning.
On time
ELISABETH: It’s so fast how things happen and, the work that you do only lives for a very brief moment and then it’s the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. Do the best you can. And don’t be an asshole. You need friends. If you’re going to be successful you need friends. So there’s this formula. 60% is excellent work. That’s just how, you have to be very good. And then you have 30% is being nice, being professional.
TWP: Being a good person.
ELISABETH: Being a good person... don’t get on anybody’s shit list, share, have a good community of friends, and it’ll all fall into place. And then there’s 10% for crazy success. You know — luck. You are at the right place at the right time and you meet the right person and this person is just in love with you, takes it to a different level.
JAN: A gun could also help.
ELISABETH: In certain instances, probably.
JAN: Flash your gun at the meeting, (slaps hands), forcing them to love you. It’s short term, though.
TWP: Yep.
JAN: Concealed gun license. Good birthday gift.
You are at the right place at the right time and you meet the right person and this person is just in love with you, takes it to a different level.
Client critiques
JAN: If that happens I think then communication wasn’t good. Might have been too much time between your last meeting. I think being in touch with you client more frequently prevents these misunderstandings. But I remember that there was this — the designer, the all-knowing entity, knowing exactly what the client needs. The designer gets the briefing and then he digs himself a ditch and then figures it out and then comes out of it, like a hermit, and then presents the big god-like vision. That’s an arrogant position, as a designer. That’s when miscommunication happens. Letting the client become part of the process is good. Again, lot of designers have that idea of "leave me alone client” — let me do my work, I know exactly what I’m doing. But I think it’s wrong. You don’t know what you’re doing. I think that the client is the specialist. They know all the right things, you just have to ask them the right questions.
ELISABETH: You grow up to become professional, and when you start working for yourself you will become a different person. You will worry about different things. You will, everything will shift again. There’s so many things that influence who you are.
TWP: I’m looking forward to the shifts.
ELISABETH: It happens very subtle.
TWP: Did you ever have a moment, like oh shit, what if this person doesn’t like who I’ve grown into?
ELISABETH: That Jan doesn’t like who I become? All the time.
JAN: You should.
ELISABETH: Every day. I mean that’s why you are in a relationship. Because you do want — you know, you have — this person knows everything about you and that’s why you have a partner.
This person knows everything about you and that’s why you have a partner.