Jack & Dana
Photography by Ryan Patterson
Interviewed in Greenpoint, Brooklyn with their two cats, Jack Tatum of Wild Nothing and Dana Bodourov of Rila jewelry are a little family.
JACK: I’m definitely at home more than Dana is, because with music I don’t have a place that I need to go. I do when I’m recording, last month when I was in L.A. I had somewhere to go and it was this weird role reversal because Dana is usually the one going to work and I’m like, “OK, see you when you get off,” hanging around the house, it was totally the opposite, I was the one who was gone 10 hours a day. There are times when we’re at home together and both trying to work on stuff.
DANA: It can be a little frustrating if we’re both in the office. If I know he’s working on a song sometimes I’ll say to myself, “I’m going to do computer stuff in the other room.”
JACK: I tend to save anything important that I’m trying to accomplish around Dana’s schedule in a way. Not so much because I find her distracting, it’s a better use of my time if I try and accomplish something while she’s gone so once Dana gets off work we can hang out or make dinner together or watch TV or do boring couple stuff.
DANA: I like boring couple stuff.
JACK: It’s more of a mixing thing. When I’m working on music, once you have the pieces of the puzzle there, you have the elements that are making up your song. I start mixing, I’m tweaking the sounds. And it’s all super boring, compressing a track, it’s not really going to sound that different to Dana, but it will drive me fucking insane. Sometimes I’ll need to loop this one section because I need to use that as my frame of reference so then I’m sitting there playing the same loop over and over and over again. I’m not thinking about what it sounds like outside of my own head, trying to accomplish my task. I can totally understand that if I took a step back and was able to hear myself listening to the same loop over and over again, it would drive anybody insane.
DANA: I try to be really specific whenever I give a criticism, I’ll say, you know, “What’s that sound in the background? I’m not really sure what it is.”
JACK: We’re both pretty good sports about taking criticism. It can be hard though. Sometimes it’s all just a matter of context and, because we do work in such close quarters with each other, we’re an extension of each other in terms of being part of each other’s creative process. When I finish something that I’m working on, I'm immediately going to show Dana.
On Tour
JACK: I would think that most creative people feel the same way when they're working on something they reach a point in which they're ready to leave it behind and start working on the next thing. Which can be difficult to do when you work in music, there is a more rigorous schedule to things that people don’t necessarily think about when they’re listening to their favorite band. You do have to plan so far ahead and really think about what your next year, your next two years is going to look like. For instance I’ve been at home for the past year writing. That’s been great because I get to have this home life that I don't get when I’m on tour where our lives are scattered all over the place. So I have to think about that stuff and I have to think, OK, when I finish this, when is it going to realistically come out and what is that going to mean after it comes out? When am I going to start touring again. That can be a hard thing to do when you're already passed something creatively.
DANA: It’s sort of similar in any scenario, whenever I design jewelry, that’s the fun part, and making the first samples, it’s really exciting seeing the ideas actually happening. After a while you continue to get orders for the same piece that you’ve made, 100 times, and you’re tired of seeing it. There are many pieces that I want to get rid of and not make. I’m always trying to think of a simpler way to get around it. Similar to when you have to play songs that you wrote five years ago, because that's what people want to hear when you play.
JACK: It can be hard for both of us. You definitely have to walk that line between what’s interesting for you as a creator and what people have become familiar with from your brand and expect a certain thing out of fit. How do you compromise that. Appease is the wrong word, it has a negative connotation, but sort of work within the bounds of what people might expect from you and also do something that’s interesting for yourself.
TWP: What's the dynamic like when you're away on tour?
JACK: I feel like the most amount of time that we can be away from each other and things don’t get weird is about two weeks.
DANA: I think so too. It just starts sucking after two weeks.
JACK: laughs Yeah, it just starts sucking. I don't know that it ever really gets easier, but I feel like it only gets hard up to a certain point. It’s happened so many times, it doesn't make it easier when it happens, but maybe in a sense we’re numb to it. It’s frustrating, but I feel like it never reaches a point where it’s more frustrating than the last time.
DANA: I get used to it after a while, like after he’s been gone for a certain amount of time I get used to being alone. It’s just the first week or so feels really weird. Then the second week is usually fine. Then the third week I’m like wow, I really miss him. I try to visit as much as I can when they’re on tour.
JACK: I’ve always thought that it’s actually been good for our relationship. It doesn't seem like it sometimes in the moment, but I think in the long run it actually has been good for the longevity of our relationship. Sometimes you do need that time apart.
I get to have this home life that I don't get when I’m on tour.
DANA: When I first started making jewelry, I thought I had to make a collection every season. That’s what most people do, they make a collection every season. So that’s two collections a year, bigger companies will do holiday collections or mid-season summer collections. I felt like I needed to make a whole collection based on that timeline by myself, while doing another job too. It was complete insanity and I realized anything worthwhile that you are really going to be proud of will take some time. I was rushing the first few collections. I would step back for a minute and realize that could have been better if I had spent more time on it. I went from being extremely busy and pressuring myself to make a collection every single season to slowing it down and taking as much time as I needed to.
I realized anything worthwhile that you are really going to be proud of will take some time.
DANA: When we first started dating the very first week or two we had seen each other every single day, and I had this moment where I was like, "Are we seeing each other too much? This is brand new. I’ve seen him every single day. Maybe I shouldn’t see him today.” I went one or two days max without seeing him, and then the next time I saw him we both agreed we didn't like that.
JACK: We talk about it. I feel like it’s kind of an implied future. We're super in love and I don't want to be with anyone else and I don't see when or why that would change. But also I personally am not a person who feels any need to rush into marriage, on the flip side of that, I’m not one of those people that’s super opposed to marriage. I am the boring practical person that will get married for tax benefits or something.
DANA: I’m definitely more macro and he’s more micro. He gets really into details. He’ll see one thing is messed up, like a picture frame being uneven. "Why are you worrying about that, the whole room is messy, maybe the slightly crooked picture frame doesn't matter," but to him the picture frame would bother him.
JACK: Whenever Dana gets stressed out it’s usually a big picture thing, a more overarching life concern that sort of boils up.
DANA: A mini life crisis.
JACK: That boils up to the top and then she’ll be really stressed out. Whereas for me, I get stressed out about little things and don't tend to worry too much about my direction in life.
DANA: It’s kind of funny, whenever he gets upset about the small things I have a hard time relating to it. That’s why it’s easy for me to talk him down from it.
JACK: Right, because it’s totally ridiculous.
DANA: It is ridiculous, it’s so small, "why are you upset? Look at the picture, you're a successful artist doing what you love for a living."
JACK: I’m very lucky in that regard.
You're a successful artist doing what you love for a living.
DANA: I still wonder sometimes if I would want to do something else. I was always good at many things. I went to art school and did drawing and painting and photography and studied fashion and made jewelry and took dance classes and tried to learn music. I just fell into jewelry more, I stuck with it the longest, but I often wonder what my life would be like if I had stuck with something else. I think being an artist means that you can create things in many different mediums, not necessarily just one. Although if you are good at one thing then that’s even better, you only really need to be great at one thing.
JACK: I’m sure we have changed, but it doesn't feel like it. I definitely feel more grounded since I started dating Dana. On the other hand I still feel like I’m 16 all the time if I think about it.
DANA: I kept waiting for that moment when I would feel like an adult, and it still hasn't happened yet.
JACK: We lucked out meeting each other at the time in life that we did. Neither of us had any time for a person in our life that would introduce drama. We both wanted someone that could be your companion basically, be your support system.